Toronto Prostatitis Centre. Should I continue going or not?

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Kar
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Toronto Prostatitis Centre. Should I continue going or not?

Post by Kar »

Hi all,

I am in Toronto and I am new to this forum and have been suffering Prostatitis for almost 2 years. I have been through two urologists but they were not really helpful, so I decided to give Toronto Prostatitis Centre a try.

I met with Dr. Kaploun in the end of January, and my initial impression was that he is pretty knowledgeable, but as I did more research about him online. I found out that he is not a doctor, but a registered nurse in Mount Sinai hospital and he is giving me prescriptions under a different doctor's name(his partner). I just have an uncomfortable feeling about it, because what he is doing is kinda illegal. Also, I am not really getting treatment from a doctor, but a nurse. That said, I found him helpful in some aspects. Even if he is a nurse, but if he could provide a cure I don't really care who he is. He is doing prostate massage for me every 2 weeks or so, but I found mixed opinions about this treatment technique. Is prostate drainage really a viable treatment method for Prostatitis?

He asked me if I want to do a procedure that involves inserting a membrane of medicine(antibiotics & anti-inflammatory) into my rectum, and I can't have a bowl movement for at least 40 hours. It is a 4 part treatment and each one would cost 200$. When I asked him what would he put inside my body, he said he couldn't tell me because it is his formula or something. He just said it is no harm and only a small dosage. Has anyone been to this clinic and received this treatment? I don't really want to do it unless I am 100% sure it would work because the last thing I want to see is that this unorthodox treatment method is just a scam and I am a victim of it.

Does anyone have any experience with Dr. Kaploun? Can he be trusted? Should I continue going to this clinic or forget about it? I read both favourable and negative comments about him on this forum.

Also, if I need to find another urologist, does anyone know any good one who specializes treating prostatitis in the Toronto? I don't have a lot of painful symptoms, just tinglings here and here, but my major issues are frequent urination and this annoying stiff and spastic feeling on my bladder and my penis has this very sensitive sensation that feels like I need to pee most of the time.

I might have something else other than prostatitis, maybe IC or other issues. The urologists I had before only put me on antibiotics and alphablocker. They never did any thorough check up on me, although I have a lot of improvement in the span of the 2 years, I still haven't found the root of my problem so I am still symptomatic. The first urologist I had told me after finishing the antibiotics it would take 3 months for the swelling to go away then I would be fine and of course it never happened. The second one placed me on and off on Cipro / hyrtrin for about 8 months. When my improvement got to about 70%-80%, he just shrugged his head and said he didn't know what to do anymore and sent me home. I really need someone who is a lot more knowledgeable and helpful than they are. If anyone knows of any good urologists in Toronto who could help me with my problem, please let me know and it will be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks

any help much appreciated!!
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Re: Toronto Prostatitis Centre. Should I continue going or n

Post by webslave »

Run, don't walk. There are other mentions of Kaploun here; use Search. Don't take another antibiotic for this, ever. If you have the money, travel to one of the clinics we recommend here. Wise's clinic is the best, and he sets you up to treat yourself too.
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Re: Toronto Prostatitis Centre. Should I continue going or n

Post by Jay »

Hi, and welcome. I would say that you already know the answer to your question, simply by this quote: "I just have an uncomfortable feeling about it, because what he is doing is kinda illegal."

As the patient, you have a right to know what's being administered to you. The con artists we read about here, almost without exception, have these "secret formula" solutions they can never fully disclose. Fact is, any credible treatment goes through a peer-reviewed assessment and multitiered studies to prove the efficacy of the ingredients.

Webslave is correct in noting that we've had negative accounts regarding this individual on the boards. I would encourage you to peruse the Clinics section of the boards and examine alternatives.
I am not a physician. This is not medical advice. Consult your doctor!

Age: 26 Onset Age: 17 Symptoms: Shooting, nerve-like pains throughout the penis, which abruptly hit and leave. Testicular pain, perineum pain, burning/irritative urination, extended pain after ejaculation. Occasionally, some allodynia or ache in the coccyx/sacrum/thigh/buttocks/legs. Diagnosis: Pelvic floor dysfunction, degenerated lumbar disk, and mildly herniated lumbar disk. Helped By: Physical therapy, pain management doctor, hot baths, therapy pool, stretching regimen, breathing exercises, relaxation, distraction. Worsened By: Arousal/ejaculation (worst), constipation, panicking/obsessing, other triggers depend upon current symptoms. Tests/Prior Treatments: Too many antibiotics to count, multiple urine tests (all normal), testicular ultrasound (normal), bladder and renal ultrasound (normal), lumbar and pelvic MRI with and w/o contrast (revealed disk problems), Elavil 25mg (caused retention), Flomax 0.4mg.
Kar
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Re: Toronto Prostatitis Centre. Should I continue going or n

Post by Kar »

Thanks for the advice, guys. I would definitely stop going to this place from now on. If this guy is that bad, how come he is still working at Mount Sinai Hospital though? Shouldn't he be fired or something?

Damn! I have spent about 500 dollars on this guy already. I should have done more research on this guy before I went to his clinic.
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Re: Toronto Prostatitis Centre. Should I continue going or n

Post by scotcan »

I live in the GTA and haven't heard of this guy before, but from your experiences he sounds very shady indeed! Someone who calls himself Dr. and is not actually one would raise concerns for me immediately, then he wants to charge you $200 for a 'secret formula' that you're not allowed to know what's in it!! Take webslave's advice - run don't walk.

There are a couple of PT's in Ontario that may be able to help you. One is located in Aurora (Nelly Faghani) and the other is located in Cambridge (Carolyn Vandyken). I have been going to Carolyn for a year now and she has really helped me. I don't take any medication or painkillers and haven't for about 18 months and I feel so much better now than when this first started.

Good luck
Age: 43 | Onset Age: 33 | Symptoms: Burning in urethra and tip of penis at meatus. Lower back pain and occasional dull ache in groin & testicles. Pain in coccyx and left side buttock when sitting | Medication: Quercetin 1000mg, Omega 3, Turmeric 1500mg, Shilajit Extract 400mg, Ashwagandha 920mg, Glucosamine/Condroitin | Helped By: stretching, rest, light exercise, sitz baths | Worsened By: sitting for long periods of time, driving, stressful situations | Comments: I'm 90% better and don't experience much burning anymore, but get the occasional flare. My main problem now is the sitting pain, which can be quite debilitating at times. I'm sure it's something to do with the exercises & stretching I've been doing as I didn't have this problem a year ago!
Kar
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Re: Toronto Prostatitis Centre. Should I continue going or n

Post by Kar »

Thanks for the advice sotcan. The guy I mentioned who runs this clinic, but I am not going there anymore:
torontoprostatitis.ca

and thanks for the names of the PT's too.
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Re: Toronto Prostatitis Centre. Should I continue going or n

Post by jahblessbc »

I believe there is some confusion on these boards about Ilia Kaploun.

I have had chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome for the past 1.5 years and am very well connected in the medical community in Toronto and in Canada in general. I used to live in Vancouver and moved back to Toronto a few months ago. I was referred to Dr. Llanno at the Murray Koffler Urology Center at Mt. Sinai Hospital, who runs the prostatitis clinic there. Dr. Kaploun works there in conjuction with Dr. Llanno running the prostatitis clinic; in fact Kaploun does the majority of the work on patients and assessing their situation and providing a protocol. This is a very well known urology clinic and Kaploun is regarded highly there; he is in fact a doctor with an MD in urology from the University of Moscow but does work as a RN at Mt. Sinai. His prescribing doctor at his private clinic acts in the same regard as Dr. Llanno does at the Murray Koffler Center.

My doctor who referred me there is also the head of family medicine at Mt. Sinai so I trust that he would not send me to someone sketchy. Unfortunately, to see Dr. Llanno and Kaploun at Mt. Sinai is not covered under OHIP either so unless you have insurance one would have to pay to be treated at Mt. Sinai as well.

I also have seen Kaploun in his private clinic and know about his specialty treatment which is not illegal but un-patented which is why it is not used at Mt. Sinai. What it contains, is an anti-inflammatory medication, a simple antibiotic such as ampicillin and lidocaine.

Since seeing Kaploun at Mt. Sinai my symptoms have improved from about 8/10 on a pain scale to 1-2/10.

His treatments have included massage, antibiotics, dietary and lifestyle modifications (no sugar, white flour, etc....), anti-fungal treatments, alternative holistic medications and supplements.
Age:25 | Onset Age:24 | Symptoms:burning urethra, pain in the tip of penis, golf ball in rectum feeling, cold pain, weak urine stream, hesitant urination, dribbling. When flared feels like razor blades in penis. | Helped By: yoga, meditation, Alfuzosin - alpha blocker, Melloxicam - anti-inflammatory, going out and getting my mind off things, new experimental treatment, marijuana - sometimes, naturopathic tinctures designed at boosting immune system. Current treatment: Coil dispensing medication directly into prostate, prostatic massage. | Worsened By:sitting, stressing over it, alcohol
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Post by webslave »

Kaploun is a nurse because he couldn't pass the medical entrance exams in Canada; there can be no other reason. And his treatment methods are outdated (antibiotics), scientifically unsupported (antifungals) or commonplace (antibiotics), even though he is now having some success by using some of the latest ideas (massage).
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Kar
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Re: Toronto Prostatitis Centre. Should I continue going or n

Post by Kar »

I actually received no massage treatment from Kaploun other than prostate massage if that 's the "massage" treatment that you are referring to. But to be honest, I don't really know how viable this prostate massage treatment is. It could be a waste of time and money and there might be adverse effects if the prostate is being massaged too much.

Here are some concerns I have about his specialty treatment:
1. Everytime he looked at my prostate fluid under his microscope, he couldn't find any active bacteria. He just found increase of WBC and material that he claimed could be a sign of infection. If he didn't even know what bacteria I had, how could he administer an appropriate antibiotic for it? Also, is it the right way to see if there is an infection in your prostate fluid - under a microscope? Shouldn't it be sent to a lab for culture or something?

2. If his "specialty treatment" contains anti-inflammatory, it probably would provide some kind of relief to the symptoms due to its anti-inflammatory effect, but it is more like a mask to the problem. It is not really a cure. Also, each treatment costs 200 dollars, it is just a little too much for putting anti-inflammatory and antibiotics in your rectum.

I am not sure about this concept of a "prescribing doctor". I just saw Kaploun writing down his prescription on a prescription slip under a different doctor's name. The doctor wasn't even there when he was giving me the prescription. In other words, he had no consent from that doctor of what he was prescribing to me. I am surprised that doctor would let Kaploun giving out prescriptions freely under his name. What is he getting from Kaploun for this? I don't know, but I would definitely question the integrity of both of them. I would also like to know is it legal for a doctor to lend his prescription slips to his nurse friend so he can have the authority to give prescriptions to the patients?
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Post by webslave »

You ask some probing questions there! I don't want to say too much about Kaploun using another doctor's name to write scripts, but alarm bells are ringing.
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Re: Toronto Prostatitis Centre. Should I continue going or n

Post by jahblessbc »

By massage, yes I was referring to prostate massage.

I don't think he is looking for bacteria under the microscope just pus cells and WBC's.

When I saw him I was sent to do a semen culture, urinary analysis and blood work. So that is where the culturing was done for me. As well as a VB3.

I'm not sure about the specialty treatment but I know that he uses it to decrease initial congestion of the prostate- not too sure though.

With the prescribing doctor at his private clinic. This is a private clinic run by both of these doctors - does the same thing at Mt. Sinai Murray Koffler Center. The whole point of meeting the doctor first is so that he can make sure it is appropriate to be put under Kaploun's care. Same procedure at Mt. Sinai.

All I know is that when I saw Kaploun I had raging symptoms, my prostate was boggy and congested especially on the left side and in about 3 months my prostate is normal size and have had no signs of inflammation. Pain is minimal at best and the only symptoms I am still dealing with is mild urinary urgency. The results say it all to me.

Right now I am taking:
Uva Ursi Tea,
Wobenzym-N
Aloe Vera Juice
Bio K+
Florastor
Finishing up course of Flagyl for Trich infection
Age:25 | Onset Age:24 | Symptoms:burning urethra, pain in the tip of penis, golf ball in rectum feeling, cold pain, weak urine stream, hesitant urination, dribbling. When flared feels like razor blades in penis. | Helped By: yoga, meditation, Alfuzosin - alpha blocker, Melloxicam - anti-inflammatory, going out and getting my mind off things, new experimental treatment, marijuana - sometimes, naturopathic tinctures designed at boosting immune system. Current treatment: Coil dispensing medication directly into prostate, prostatic massage. | Worsened By:sitting, stressing over it, alcohol
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Re: Toronto Prostatitis Centre. Should I continue going or n

Post by webslave »

"Prostate massage" also massages the levator ani muscles behind the prostate, which leads to symptom relief in many men.

Men with UCPPS usually have small, firm prostates, not large, congested boggy ones. Of course, he is telling you the prostate was boggy and is now normal. That's his version.

You refer to "both of these doctors" — does that mean you consider nurse Kaploun a doctor?

Did you see independent lab results for the trich infection, or was that Kaploun telling you that you had a trichomonas infection?

What bacteria were cultured?
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Re: Toronto Prostatitis Centre. Should I continue going or n

Post by jahblessbc »

My prostate WAS in fact congested and boggy. This is confirmed by my previous urologist who is the head of Urology at Vancouver General Hospital and a Professor at UBC whom I have his consults for where this diagnosis was previously made. Kaploun diagnosed the same thing upon evaluation with him many many months after my first consult with my urologist in Vancouver.

I did not get the symptom relief I am experiencing from massage alone. In fact for a while I had no massages done at all and I saw massive progress.

Now after being treated my TRUS showed that yes in fact my prostate is now small and firm - characteristic of CPPS.

And yes I do consider Kaploun a doctor. He has an MD from Russia. If I had a degree from anywhere that said I was a doctor, in my eyes I would be a doctor. If you are so concerned why he is not an MD in Canada, why don't you call him or ask him and get the straight answer instead of one based on assumption.

Yes, I did see independent lab results for the trich infection which only showed up recently and I have not been sexually active in years. Presumably, my use of antibiotics in the past diluted the chance of it being found in traditional lab tests until I was off them for a couple months.

In Vancouver I was on Cipro and then more recently Bactrim.

Not sure what was cultured.

[edited by admin to remove links to site where nurse treats chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome with antibiotics]
Last edited by jahblessbc on Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Age:25 | Onset Age:24 | Symptoms:burning urethra, pain in the tip of penis, golf ball in rectum feeling, cold pain, weak urine stream, hesitant urination, dribbling. When flared feels like razor blades in penis. | Helped By: yoga, meditation, Alfuzosin - alpha blocker, Melloxicam - anti-inflammatory, going out and getting my mind off things, new experimental treatment, marijuana - sometimes, naturopathic tinctures designed at boosting immune system. Current treatment: Coil dispensing medication directly into prostate, prostatic massage. | Worsened By:sitting, stressing over it, alcohol
jahblessbc
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Re: Toronto Prostatitis Centre. Should I continue going or n

Post by jahblessbc »

By the way, if anyone wants more information about the specialty treatment. Do a google search for Kaploun Coil Patent and the patent application information as well as a document listing the functioning and protocol of the device can easily be found.
Age:25 | Onset Age:24 | Symptoms:burning urethra, pain in the tip of penis, golf ball in rectum feeling, cold pain, weak urine stream, hesitant urination, dribbling. When flared feels like razor blades in penis. | Helped By: yoga, meditation, Alfuzosin - alpha blocker, Melloxicam - anti-inflammatory, going out and getting my mind off things, new experimental treatment, marijuana - sometimes, naturopathic tinctures designed at boosting immune system. Current treatment: Coil dispensing medication directly into prostate, prostatic massage. | Worsened By:sitting, stressing over it, alcohol
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Re: Toronto Prostatitis Centre. Should I continue going or n

Post by webslave »

If you did indeed have a large boggy prostate, this could denote infection, although having no lab results for a bacterium is not encouraging, especially as you say culturing was done. It's especially surprising since you seem to have a well-informed interest in your case, yet this key fact has eluded you.

Kaploun got his MD degree in the former USSR, which did not have the same standards as the West. In the USSR, most MDs were women and had the status of glorified nurses. Canada has strict requirements for physicians generally, and Kaploun has not made the grade for one reason or another.

Trich is a STD, so that's how you got it. It can be silent in men. It is treated with metronidazole or tinidazole, so taking antibacterials will not dilute its presence, and the extensive tests you said you had should have found it. Unless the tests were not as extensive as they should have been! To make matters even more confusing, trichomonas itself can (rarely) cause prostatitis and urethritis, so that could have been the problem all along.

Really, your case raises more questions than it answers. :confused:

The bottom line for men with chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome though, is to avoid people with uncertain qualifications, people who routinely treat chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome as an infection when science has proved it is not an infection in the vast majority of cases, people who focus their attention on the prostate alone, and people who think the state of a man's pelvic pain syndrome can be ascertained from looking at prostatic fluids under a microscope. :sad:
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